A conference called by the South-east Region of the TUC JONATHAN SIBERMA Region TUC, and Kent miners' leader JACK DUNN on the conference on anemployment in London and the south-east.
Why have you called the conference?
Dromey: First of all, we should make clear that the conference was called when the Labour government was still in power. It is an attempt to bring together trade union organisations in London and the South-East develop an industrial and political strategy to deal with the question of unemployment.
The conference will be seeking to develop a series of demands around which the trade unions" industrial muscle can be mobilised to achieve industrial political objectives. Which demands?
Dromey: They roughly come under wo headings/ First, industrial. There all levels for the 35-hour week and the reduction of overtime, This would aiso have to involve a movement upwards of basic rates so that there would be no loss of earnings in the move to a 35-hour wock.
Then there's the political. The delence of government intervention in the private sector and an extension of such intervention. Of course, we're under no illusion about the objective conditions under which we put this •a Tory government - but TOTALL B we feel it's advance the need for such policies.
Dune: We need to change from a "lame duck" strategy of government intervention to a positive political philosophy. This means the need both for strong defensive action and Tor strong offensive action as well. WIll there definite action coming out of the conference?
Dunn: hoping within constraints of TUC policy to get some action at grass roots level.
Dromey: A measure of the success of the conference will be if major unions im the South-East have the 35-hour week in their next claims and take action over it; if we can get greater public expenditure in the region. The objective of the conference will be to say. 'Here's a programme of demands -now, how can we translate it into practical activity?' Dunn: Take the civil service. They're suffering the Tory freeze on jobs. There'sa need to get the unions in the civil service to act in concert over Jobs.
On education - this isn't only a matter for teachers but for us all. There's the need to get the umons in education to take the lead in fighting back.
How does the present leadership of the labour movement fit into this?
Dromey: This is where disagree. It's not a problem of the rank and file versus the leadership. It's a probler that the donnant ideology at all levels has been in favour of the mixed coonomy. Dunn: Weive got to galvanise the rank and file for new policies. One Would hope that this would reflect itself in a change of leadership.
Benn is speaking at your conference. What role do you see him playing in this new direction?
Dromey: We would welcome the opening up of a debate about the mistakes that were made over the last live years. Tony Benn has done a great service to the socking to promote this debate in Socialist Challenge 7 June page 8 saying that the cause of the clectoral deleat was not the discontent" (for which the unions were not responsible anyway!
between the left and the right within the movement about a change In strategy, Shouldn't he have spoken out a few years earlier electoral defeat were being sown?
Dromey: At a key time historically, he's done it. I'm not prepared to make a judgement on the past.
Would you agree with Bean's position on what is involved in such a change of strutegy?
On collective instance, Benn only criticised Phase 4 (not 1,2 and 3) in assessing the cause of the defeat.
Dromes: I don't want to put it in terms of what Bean says. I would put the problem in terms of the economic crisis in 1975-6 with the pressure by the IMF and the abandonment by the Labour government of the policies on which it was elected.
ln doing. government laid the basis for a shift to the right in society and paved the way for the Tories: I think that the Labour government's positions on pay and public expenditure were particularly important in this.
continue to pledge to an 'irreversible shift in the favour of working people and their families A the necessary politics and organisation to prevent it, we will have the endless cycle of cynicism, followed by disillusionment amongst bers, followed by defeat of Labour at the clection.
the What do you mean by politics and organisation?
Dromey: The labour got to make up its mind, is us strategy to prop up the mixed economy or is it for the creation of a socialist, planned economy!
forward, of ideas: the idea that guarantecing placing workers private enterprise.
we would TTELLAD got to win the to take away our rights.
away our inalienable rights.
No governmenr, movement in labour movement defenceless.
when the seeds of the bargaining, for the Labour Wehad a government clected on a BOU RUCT Until such time that we develop our memmovement has We're for the latter, It's the battle of ideas for the latter that must go There are certain areas in this war • Defence of the public sector, We must explain that the public sector does not mean bureaucracy, but that it's essential for any civilised society.
• Nationalisation and government intervention. We've got to get over the best way of freedom at the whims LISTE by of It's through the increased public accountability that comes through the extension of the menE We must break down che myth that nationalisation is an attack on Oak.
•Free collective bargaining. We've Todd recognition that whilst we live in the jungle, we need the means to stay alive in that jungle.
And I'm utterly opposed to the New — put forward by Callaghan and others - that we take a supine view of the Tory attacks. They are attempting Lnion.
Just as we would not concede the right of any government to torture and murder, so we will not concede the right of this government to take whatever its majority, has the right to render the conferences take up these themes. A TASK for the trade union movement: how to blunt the Tories* axe on jobs and union rights. On 23 June, two will discuss the problem of unemployment in London and the South-east; another, ca theme 'Defend Our Union As part of our discussi
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*No government has the right to render the labour movement defenceless